Why did Nokia Symbian smartphone sales crash this year? Infographic

Nokia reported results for the second quarter of 2011, and they are terrible. As expected.

Did you expect anything better? You shouldn’t. It is perfectly clear now that Nokia has been disrupted by Android and iPhone, and there’s not much they can do this year to make things any better.

Competition knows about weakness in Nokia Symbian portfolio, and the inability of the platform itself to compete on anything else but price. If rivals could match Symbian handsets on price, with  good enough, similarly featured Android devices – 9 customers out of 10 will leave the shop with new Android device in their pocket.

And, as of this spring,  competitors like Samsung and HTC are matching Nokia Symbian device price points aggressively. Take a look at this Infographic (price data from Amazon.de):

Things were over for Nokia Symbian smartphones in the second half of last year, when Android phones got good enough and cheap enough for most of the former Nokia smartphone buyers.

A year ago Nokia started losing market share by 5-6% (of the total) a quarter. It went down from 39% to 33%  in Q3 2010, then another 5% – from 33% to 28% in Christmas quarter. In Q4 2010 Nokia managed to slow the decline a bit with a boost from from the novelty and pent-up demand for terribly delayed Symbian 3. In Q1 2011 they floated on air by stuffing Nokia distribution channels in China and Europe to the hilt. Unfortunately, distributors can take and move only so much of old crappy phones, and with nothing interesting to stimulate the demand, Nokia is now paying the price. With smartphone market growing by leaps and bounds, Nokia sold 8.5 million less then they did last quarter. Nokia sales in China dropped by 53%, in Europe by 21%.

Of course, some Nokia/Symbian fans and analysts who consider Stephen Elop, the strategy shift to Windows Phone, and “Burning Platforms” memo to be the root of all Nokia troubles, where quick declare  that they have been proven right, and that Nokia Q2 results show that all of this is happening only because of February 11th.

Sorry to disappoint you, guys. Nokia’s current state of affairs has little to do with Feb 11th, and everything to do the mistakes/failure to react to disruption by former management. Symbian is just not good enough to compete with the latest versions of Android, and it’s improvement is way too slow. It was way too slow 3 years ago, it was way too slow last year, and it is way too slow today. February 11th, or not.

Symbian’s efficiency was a big competitive advantage when processing power in a phone was scarce and expensive. The key selling point for most of Symbian devices these past few years was the price. Unfortunately Moore’s law works almost just as well in mobile, as it did in PCs. Computing power got cheap and plenty enough this year, and Symbian lost the only competitive advantage it had.

Nokia N8 and other Symbian devices were positioned to compete on price with Android flagships like Samsung Galaxy S and HTC Desire. Unfortunately, Nokia’s competitors introduced next generations of their flagships this year, and slashed their last year model prices significantly. While Nokia launched X7 and mostly cosmetic S^3 make-over that is Symbian Anna.

Right now, Nokia rivals have several Android handsets, that are cheaper and, in many cases, better then anything Nokia has to offer in the same price range. The only feature that Android vendors arguably could not match yet – is camera. But very few customers will chose a phone simply because it can take better pictures.

It’s simple – if offered to pick between Nokia N8 and cheaper Samsung Galaxy SL, or X7 and Galaxy S that costs 20% less – the choice is obvious. For consumer and the sales guy in the shop. It’s Galaxy S. You do not need to invent some imaginary Nokia boycotts caused by Nokia’s February announcement, to understand why almost nobody wants to buy Finnish smartphones anymore.

Nokia will continue to bleed market share, and, most likely, lose unit volumes for the rest of this year. It is very likely that they will end 2011 with the market share in a single digits. But it does not matter much in the long run. What’s done is done, and Nokia has to pay the price for it’s hubris of the last 3 years.

What matters – is whether Nokia’s bet on Windows Phone pays off or not. We should know that by this time next year.

 

Author: Stasys Bielinis

While I like to play with the latest gadgets, I am even more interested in broad technology trends. With mobile now taking over the world - following the latest technology news, looking for insights, sharing and discussing them with passionate audience - it's hard to imagine a better place for me to be. You can find me on Twitter as @UVStaska'

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  • http://drgeorge.org/ ricegf

    February 11 had *everything* to do with the disaster that is Nokia today – Mr. Elop essentially called this year’s inventory a dead end, and touted what wonderful products they’ll have in 2012.  So many of their former customers decided to wait for the “good stuff”.  Inevitable result: Cash flow crisis.

    Google “Osborne Effect”.  Nokia isn’t the first company destroyed by a clueless CEO.

  • http://www.staska.net Staska

    Hmm. And you do have some hard data to prove that Symbian sales are falling because of February 11th? Not just emotional response for Elop’s Symbian abandonment? 

    Maybe some data showing that there was fresh and big acceleration in Symbian market share decline after and because of Feb 11th, from 11% they lost in 2H 2010?  Maybe some data of slower market share decline in Q4 2010 and first half of Q1 2011? Some new bestselling models that should have slowed Symbian market share decline from what was happening last year? Or some data to prove that people stopped buying Nokia N8 or X7 because of Burning Platform memo, and not because they can now get Samsung Galaxy S or LG Optimus 2x cheaper then the Nokia flagships, as I just showed in the infographic?  

  • gerrr!

    Nokia smartphone sales:

    Q3-2009 = 20.8M
    .
    .
    Q3-2010 = 26.5M
    Q4-2010 = 28.3MQ1-2011 = 24.2MQ2-2011 = 16.7M

  • Bob Shaw

    Staska:

    Good analysis.  Competition moves to prize in absence of any differentiating factor that is well communicated.  Apple created points of differentiation (some real, some imaginary and some trivial) and communicated like hell to keep high margins and profitability compared to competition.  Nokia needs to find some unique points of differentiation and communicate like hell.

  • http://twitter.com/Interlingua_TV Interlingua TV

    Do you know the *statistics* based on a wide range are what should be trusted, not just some weird example with some arbitrary prices from a store in a single country?

    Elop’s Feb 11 decision and announcement of killing Symbian is *the only* cause of the Nokia drop in sales, because more than 50% of smartphone buyers who spend hundreds of dollars on multi-year term *DO* a search for reviews first before buying a smartphone. And what they can read about Nokia’s smartphone based on Symbian? That Elop killed Symbian?

    If you need to see some data take what Gerr gave you and put it in a graph (Q3-2009 = 20.8M ^
    Q3-2010 = 26.5M ^ Q4-2010 = 28.3M ^ Q1-2011 before Feb 2011 v Q1-2011 = 24.2M v Q2-2011 = 16.7M ) or look at allaboutsymbian for a graph already made. It is a deep crash the sales of Nokia smartphones, it is not about 10-20 dollars more in some store like you put it.

  • Vode

    You raised a couple relevant points, but you failed to mention the biggest reason. Retailers are getting rid of Symbian stock because of the february 11th announcement.

  • http://drgeorge.org/ ricegf

    Thanks, you beat me to it!  Symbian sales were growing until the announcement – the market share losses were a result of iOS and Android growing *faster* than Symbian.  After Feb 11, sales dropped almost overnight – and Nokia had only 1 non-Symbian phone in development, the MeeGo-based N9 that he also end of lifed.

    The data is clear as day… and night.

    (Disclaimer: I’ve never owned a Symbian phone.)

  • Jamesfrost12

    Agreed.  Am surprised Staska didn’t google these stats himself.

    And I’ve never owned a Symbian phone either.

  • http://www.staska.net Staska

    If you are analyzing the health of the company or analyzing competitiveness of it’s product portfolio – you can’t just look at absolute product sales figures in isolation. You have to look at at overall market the company is competing in and see how it is doing relative to that market. 

    When market grows as crazy as smartphones did in 2H 2010, if you just look at the isolated unit growth in a single company, a lot of problems get hidden behind huge market growth numbers. Rising tides lifting all boats and all that. When that crazy QoQ growth growth stops – like it did in Q1 2011, going from 24-30% QoQ growth to just 5%, the problems become visible again. And this is exactly what happened to Nokia this year. If company is able to more or less to keep up with market, or loose small shares of it – it means it is able to offer a competitive product, at least in some way. That’s what Nokia was able to do for a few years before Q3 2010. Well, they were competing primarily on price, and were able to keep up with the growing market by abandoning high margin high end of it first to the iPhone and then to Android. Running away down the market, were Android and iPhone could not get yet. But by the end of Q2 2010 Nokia has run out of room to run away, and Android started eating it’s market share at ever lower price points. The only reason Nokia was able to grow unit volumes (by 2.5 million, or 10% from Q2), was because  the whole market grew by 30% in that same quarter. In  Q4 2010 – Nokia was able to increase unit volumes by even lower – 1.8M devices or 7% QoQ, only because overall smartphone market grew another 24% in that quarter. So Nokia was behind the market growth in 2H 2010 by 17-20 percentage points.  It’s easy to grow unit volumes even if you are trailing the market growth by 20 percentage points, if that market grows 30%. But when that market growth slows to 5% (as it did in Q1 2011), your trailing 20% percent gives you 15% decline.  And this is exactly what happened to Nokia in Q1 2011 – 14% decline in unit volumes. Of course, now this trend is accelerating – because in 9 months since Symbian 3 shipped, Nokia has not been able to significantly update it’s product line. While all Android vendors launched next generation of their products. The new generation Android handsets allowed them to slash prices for last year’s models, which put most of Nokia Symbian devices into position where they simply can not compete. Nokia N8 was aimed to compete with Samsung Galaxy S, and it could do that while Nokia N8 price was 400EUR and Galaxy S was 600EUR. But now Galaxy S is cheaper then Nokia N8. Can you think of any reason, except for the camera which is important to very few, why would an average customer choose N8 vs Galaxy S? It’s as simple as that now.            

  • Test1ng

    Read the article before posting.

    Q2 crashed because Android entered to pricing segments dominated by Symbian and launched shiny new models. And because channel stuffing. Q4/Q1 numbers also show users bought some Symbian 3 handset at launch. 
    Also you can’t say that is didn’t matter that IOS and Android were growing much faster. It will always lead to ultimate collapse in actual unit sales when competitors reach critical mass.

  • http://www.staska.net Staska

    Well, I actually have checked the prices across multiple online stores, in various countries. And I even checked the prices of post pay plans and devices carriers offer with them . Situation is pretty much the same across the board. It’s just that infographic is already too big for my taste with only one source, and without adding post pay carrier stuff. 

    Regarding that 50% claim for “hundreds of dollars” spenders doing – any data to back that up? Though it does not matter  much, because it actually helps to prove my point even more. Now that Samsung Galaxy S is cheaper then Nokia N8 or Nokia N8 – how many reviews can you find which will recommend Nokia N8 over Samsung Galaxy S/SL? 

    And as I said in a comment above – if you look at only one company data in isolation, ignoring overall market trends in a market that grew as crazy as smartphones did in 2H 2010 – you will miss a lot of problems that get masked by the huge overall market growth. When market grows 30% in one quarter, the company can easily deliver small overall volume growth even trailing the market growth by 20 points. When that crazy growth stops and gets down to 5% as it did in Q1 this year – all those problems get laid bare, and trailing 20 points gives you 15% decline in unit volumes. (Which very close to how much Nokia unit volumes declined in Q1 2011)  

    And you are right – it’s not about 10-20 dollars more for Nokia phones. It’s about 100-200Euro difference. You can convince a buyer to buy Nokia N8 when it costs 400EUR, against Galaxy S which costs 550-600EUR. 150-200EUR difference/savings is a great selling point even for what is a slightly or not so slightly inferior device. When that 150-200EUR difference disappears, and superior device (Galaxy S) becomes cheaper then the inferior one (Nokia N8) – how do you convince a customer to buy Nokia phone? 

  • http://profiles.google.com/ee2718 admin 1

    OK past mistakes are past mistakes, but I can’t figure out why Elop thinks he can sell Windows 7 phones which nobody else can sell. What is more, he is tying Nokia to the Windows mobile platform in a do or die bid, without exclusivity. Even if Elop manages the impossible and actually does manage to sell Windows phones, they will face competition from others jumping in with rival Windows phones.

  • http://twitter.com/Interlingua_TV Interlingua TV

    Ok, I will make you some drawings, give you some examples, maybe finally you will understand.
    Example 1: 
    If Google says today it will not create a new version of Android, but will still support the existing phones for few years, because of having a new OS which is not compatible with Android, do you think people will continue to buy the killed Android?

    Imagine the same with iOS killing.

    Example 2:
    SmartPhones subsidized by operators in some countries are free or cost less than 50$ with a 2-year contract, this applies to N8, any other model. So the phones are (almost) free on a contract. Why people choose something else than the dying Symbian?

    Example 3:
    You want to buy a smartphone. Do you talk with friends about their phones, do you search internet for a review and opinion about the phone or do simply go and ask the person who sells the phones? It doesn’t matter: in all cases you will get the same answer: Symbian was killed and will be replaced by WP7. This is *WHY* not many people will buy Symbian smartphones. The only people that will still buy them, are people who don’t care about future apps and they buy it for camera, GPS with built in maps and other specific features, and they don’t care much about the software and apps. These are not using much the “software / applications” part of the smartphone. 16 millions of smartphones sold in Q2 to these kind of people, but if Symbian had not be killed that figure would be at about 30 million (like in Q4 2010), which is almost double. 

    Elop killed half of the smartphone sales in 5 months because of his announcement.

    Anyways, read example 1 again, maybe you’ll understand finally or ask me for the drawing if it is still hard for you.

  • http://twitter.com/Interlingua_TV Interlingua TV

    Ok, I will make you some drawings, give you some examples, maybe finally you will understand.
    Example 1: 
    If Google says today it will not create a new version of Android, but will still support the existing phones for few years, because of having a new OS which is not compatible with Android, do you think people will continue to buy the killed Android?

    Imagine the same with iOS killing.

    Example 2:
    SmartPhones subsidized by operators in some countries are free or cost less than 50$ with a 2-year contract, this applies to N8, any other model. So the phones are (almost) free on a contract. Why people choose something else than the dying Symbian?

    Example 3:
    You want to buy a smartphone. Do you talk with friends about their phones, do you search internet for a review and opinion about the phone or do simply go and ask the person who sells the phones? It doesn’t matter: in all cases you will get the same answer: Symbian was killed and will be replaced by WP7. This is *WHY* not many people will buy Symbian smartphones. The only people that will still buy them, are people who don’t care about future apps and they buy it for camera, GPS with built in maps and other specific features, and they don’t care much about the software and apps. These are not using much the “software / applications” part of the smartphone. 16 millions of smartphones sold in Q2 to these kind of people, but if Symbian had not be killed that figure would be at about 30 million (like in Q4 2010), which is almost double. 

    Elop killed half of the smartphone sales in 5 months because of his announcement.

    Anyways, read example 1 again, maybe you’ll understand finally or ask me for the drawing if it is still hard for you.

  • http://www.staska.net Staska

    Any data to back your assertion that Symbian would have sold 30 million devices if not for Feb.11th? 

    The only thing I see is your theories, basically claiming that  since Nokia has sold 28.5 million smart phones in Q4, they would have sold as much in Q2 2011. Why? Your answer seem to be – just because. 

    It seems that it does not matter that Symbian^3 was crap  compared to Android and iOS in 2010. It does not matter that Nokia sales in the high end above 500EUR handsets have already went from millions to zero in a few years. It does not matter that Nokia’s Symbian portfolio is basically almost the same as it was  in November 2010.  And Symbian Anna -which wasn’t shipping through most of Q2 – is still just mostly cosmetic update to the crappy S^3. It does not matter that Nokia Symbian  phones were already unable to compete with Androids, trailing the market growth by 20 percentage points when that market was growing at a rate of 30% a quarter. It does not matter that those high end 500EUR+ Android handsets like Galaxy S, against which Nokia was unable to compete and had to completely cede the most profitable market, went down in price to 300EUR, making most of Nokia Symbian portfolio uncompetitive. 

    None of that seems to matter at all. According to you, Nokia has sold 28.5 million Symbian devices  in  Q4 2010, so it was Nokia’s god given right to sell at least the same amount or more smartphones in Q2 2011, while doing virtually nothing to improve their products. They only had to keep their mouths shut, sit back and relax, and sales will come in. 

    But then evil stupid incompetent Trojan Horse Burning Eflop opened his mouth and the whole house came tumbling down. 

  • Ankitghosh

    nokia n9 with meego os will help nokia regaining it’s market

  • Ankitghosh

    nokia n9 with meego os will help nokia regaining it’s market

  • Ankitghosh

    nokia n9 with meego os will help nokia regaining it’s market

  • http://drgeorge.org/ ricegf

    I think you’re straining the gnat from your tea while swallowing an entire camel (to coin a phrase). No doubt Symbian wasn’t a long-term winner for Nokia – that’s why MeeGo was to be their next-gen platform in 2010. They failed badly to execute the transition, though, with the N900 finally being announced in the second quarter of this year to rave reviews. 

    But can you find a single review that doesn’t note that Nokia has already announced end of life for a product they’re not yet even shipping, or that they won’t ship the N900 to the western world in deference to Microsoft? Do you really believe that will have no impact on sales?If you read the comments on those reviews, which are followed mostly by Nokia fans, you find a majority were content to continue buying Symbian phones waiting for either the S^4 features or MeeGo – since both run Qt4 apps, all of their app investments were secure. When the entire Qt4 line was end-of-lifed on Feb 11, with emphasis on no Qt4 support in WinP7, the gasp in the comments was virtually audible (and the entire Nokia workforce walked out in frustration, by the way). The most common conclusion in the comments I read was, “Well, I guess I’ll buy Android”.

    Android sales jump and Symbian sales crash.  Nokia’s subsequent frantic backpedaling (by the CTO, not the CEO!) and their “next billion phones” statement of support, while simultaneously closing the Symbian Foundation and divesting Qt4, was simply too diluted and unfocused and poorly (read: accurately) reported to repair the damage.

    Sure, Android is kicking everyone’s can down the road to market, even iPhone to some extent, and Symbian wasn’t a long-term winner. But the huge drop in sales after Feb 11 was principally a result of… Feb 11. Instead of following 4 quarters of increasing sales but gently declining share, you get a cliff.

    Blame Elop’s ham-handedness. “Our platform is burning, but we’ll have something that doesn’t suck *next* year” was stoooopid, all the tap-dancing about everybody else in the market notwithstanding.

  • http://www.staska.net Staska

    “Android sales jump and Symbian sales crash.” 

    You are absolutely right about that. Except, that I think you mean that it happened in February. It did not. It happened last summer, before Elop came on board, and shortly afterwards, before Elop had a chance to have any meaningful impact. 

    The biggest jump in Android sales happened last spring/summer, when Android sales jumped 100% in less then 4 months (May-August 2010) –  from 100K activations a day. They added 100K activations more by December 2010 to reach 300K activations a day. Which means that from May till December (8 month) Android sales tripled and reached 109 million units a year run rate. Android growth from 300K in December to 550K today (+250K daily activations in 8 months pretty close to what it was 8 months before that in absolute numbers, and pales in comparison if you look at growth rates).

    Come to think of it, this Android growth leap coincides very closely with the start of Symbian market share crash, which inevitably became unit volume crash as soon as growth slowed –  Summer/Fall of 2010. Here’s one more data point for you. Symbian unit volume growth actually crashed in Q4 2010 too. Nokia grew Symbian unit volumes by 2.5M both in Q2 and Q3, 2010 (when many were deferring  their buys waiting for S^3 to launch, and/or pre-ordering millions of N8s). Now comes Q4, 2010  – shiny new Nokia N8 and other S^3 devices start shipping, market is still growing like crazy, and it is  Christmas/Holiday shopping season – the best time of the year for consumer electronics sales. One would expect that with all of this going for Nokia in Q4, they will grow the absolute unit sales by a much more then they did in Q3 and Q2. What actually happened? Nokia Symbian shipments increased only by 1.8 million. In Christmas quarter Nokia Symbian sales less then in Q2 or Q3, by 700 00 units (or 28%). The only reason Nokia was able to grow unit sales in Q4 2010 at all, was because it was a Chrismas quarter and because of all those pre-orders and pent-up demand for S^3. If it was not for Christmas/Holiday shopping season – we would have seen an actual Symbian unit sales decline already then. Without any Feb.11th

    “Gently declining share” ?! Now that’s a an interesting way to describe a 25% drop in market share in just 6 months – probably the worst drop in any industry ever. 

    As for Nokia N9 – (I believe you have that phone, not N900 in mind) – what does it have to do with Symbian?  

    Fans feeling secure  about investments in Symbian apps because of ? Do you have any idea how many of a total Symbian apps were written/re-written in QT? No more then 20% methinks? The rest were written with old Symbian tools that can not be easily ported to QT.

    Divesting QT? What are you talking about? QT remains with Symbian phones and now will be ported to S40.  

    Do you even know what Symbian Foundation was and how much of actual Symbian development it did? Almost none. 

    Maybe I am “…straining the gnat from your tea while swallowing an entire camel” in all this. But too me it seems much more likely that blinded with Elop hate, you simply can not face the truth. 

    Basing all your theories/assertions on a single isolated data point of unit volume crash. A crash – that can be as easily explained by a lot of reasons/trends other then Feb.11. Trends that were clearly evident  before February 2011, and are as clearly evident now. 

  • http://www.staska.net Staska

    All in all – we could argue this thing to infinity. You stick to absolute numbers, I stick to market trends. 

    Just one question. Given that you have to pay at least 10% less for Samsung Galaxy S vs Nokia N8, which one would you choose? Not as Nokia fanboy, but as an average consumer who comes into a shop and does not really care for super duper quality pics – they just have to be good enough?

  • http://drgeorge.org/ ricegf

    “Divesting QT? What are you talking about?”

    You didn’t know?  Here’s a news article from March 2011. It was widely reported in the American press; perhaps not so much where you live?

    http://www.engadget.com/2011/03/07/nokia-sells-qt-licensing-and-services-business-to-digia/
    “Do you even know what Symbian Foundation was?”

    Of course. Do you? It’s right there on the symbian.org website today: “We have now completed the transition from a non-profit organisation responsible for governing the open development and curation of the Symbian platform, to a licensing entity with no permanent staff.”  Shuttering the foundation that governed Symbian development wasn’t exactly a vote of confidence, was it? 

    “But too me it seems much more likely that blinded with Elop hate, you simply can not face the truth. Basing all your theories/assertions on a single isolated data point of unit volume crash.”

    First, I have no reason to hate Mr. Elop, as I have no vested interest in Symbian at all. But his incompetence is quite remarkable to someone like me who has tracked computing markets since 1978 and is fascinated by the rise of smartphones.  

    Not many CEOs can cut the value of their company’s stock in half in only 6 months (see http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=NOK+Interactive#chart1:symbol=nok;range=6m;indicator=volume – by the way, note the date of that cliff on the left ;-). You claim the problems were well-formed in 2010, and indeed the storm clouds of Android’s rise were well documented in the press; but hit that little “1Y” button on the bottom, and watch the stock growing over time… until February 11, 2011.  Are you *sure* that’s coincidence?  Really? Or were investors comfortable with the idea of Nokia joining the Android bandwagon as a *third* platform, and panicked when the CEO ham-handedly drove the bus off a cliff in the direction of Redmond?  You don’t diss your cash cow when you have no substitute revenue stream within a year of market.  Unless you’re CEO of Nokia, apparently.

    Again, google “Osborne effect”; you probably won’t see a better example for at least another 10 years.  It’s classic.  Truly remarkable.

    Finally, as shown above, I’m hardly basing my assertion on “a single isolated data point”. I’ve given you three explicit references in this post alone. It’s not me that unwilling to face the truth. Google is your friend. Read up on the train wreck that is Nokia today, and what caused its derailment. You’ll find one particular date keeps popping up…

  • http://www.staska.net Staska

    Damn. 

    Was almost ready to go to sleep, sleep on it and think how to respond. But you make it too easy, falling back on the meaningless stuff.

    “… three explicit references in this post…” ?! Really ?! I think you’ve given 4. QT, Symbian Foundation,  stock price and Osborne effect. Let me address each one. 

    Qt? Do you even have an idea that there is a huge difference between open source development and business licensing stuff? E.g – between Linux and what Red Hat does? Nokia divested Qt licensing operations with 19 employees, who had nothing to do with actual Qt development….

    Symbian foundation quote? Ha! Can you even translate that corp spin speak quote you just posted to normal human language? Symbian Foundation never governed Symbian development. It may have pretended to do that via all those working, strategy and other groups. Problem is – it never worked – 95% of all Symbian development  was always done by Nokia since 2008.  

    The fact is – Nokia bought Symbian in 2008, tried to make it open source alternative to Android and failed miserably. LG dropped out at the moment of buying, then Motorola, then Sony Ericsson, then Samsung. 

    Nokia thought that they could fool others into Symbian camp. By the end of last year they saw that it is impossible. In the end Nokia was left doing most of all Symbian stuff, dreaming that someone else join them. Nobody did and Nokia ended up doing 95%+ of Symbian development work by themselves. With a friggin 6000 employees and hugest R&D budget in the industry, just to produce crap that Symbian was. 

    As for stock price – I never was interested in those short term fluctuations. As a response – just check AAPL price between Jul 95 and Nov 97 or Feb 2000 and March 2003 – to see how little that matters.So I am pretty sure that is not a coincidence. I’m just pretty sure that short term stock market reaction does not mean crap. They were expecting a miracle from Elop, while he only offered a bold bet on Windows Phone and markets are freaking out for now over the chance that Elope is wrong. And he may well be be. His WP bet either pays off or not, and if it does not pay off, Nokia is dead. We’ll know it in about a year. 

    As for dissing Symbian cash cow. I think I showed rather convincingly in this post that that cash cow died by Q3 2010. 

    “Osborne effect”? Please. If Nokia had anything in Symbian to compete with Samsung Galaxy S at the same price – it could have been it. But try to think honestly – how many people will buy Nokia N8 instead of Galaxy S if Galaxy S is cheaper?   

  • http://www.staska.net Staska

    Nobody else can sell WP stuff, because no one ever really tried (except, maybe, LG). HTC, Samsung just took MSFT promotion money, spent it, but really were focused on selling their Androids. 

    Do or die bid? Yep – agreed. If WP Nokia bid fails Nokia is dead. But did they have any alternative? 

    And this do or die bid, if it pays off – MSFT is already paying Nokia a lot, every other competitor on WP platform will be bringing $$ to Nokia via revenue share from Market/operator/language stuff and Maps/Navigation/Location based services. In addition to what Nokia gets for camera stuff from every license MSFT sells. And other things that are possibly in the contract between Nokia and MSFT

    So it’s not really that competition on WP platform is on equal footing with Nokia. And that may have been worth a do or die bid considering the alternatives Nokia had in 2010

  • http://www.staska.net Staska

    Hmm. And you have any data to prove that assertion? Instead of the stuff I showed in article above – that retailers are simply preferring Galaxy S to N8 and similar stuff from Android vs Symbian, because Android stuff is cheaper and better?

  • http://drgeorge.org/ ricegf

    “you have to pay at least 10% less for Samsung Galaxy S vs Nokia N8″

    Really?  Amazon.com in USA lists N8 for $379 and Galaxy S for $434, so I guess you’re speaking hypothetically? OK, so given Mr. Elop’s description of Symbian as a “burning platform” that’s at the end of its life, I wouldn’t consider the N8 or any other Symbian phone regardless of price.  But then, that supports my argument much better than yours, doesn’t it?

    As for your other long post, if you really can’t see the very substantial effect the announcement had on Nokia’s sales volume and investor confidence despite the overwhelming evidence, then there’s not much else to say there.  *shrugs*
     
    What really puzzles me, though, is your determination to call me names. I’ve been very polite, yet you seem  determined to label me a “Nokia fanboy” even though I’ve stated clearly twice that I’ve never owned a Symbian phone.  I guess character assassination is the last resort when the facts don’t support your argument?

    Oh, well. Sorry to rain on your parade. Please resume your enthusiastic endorsement of Mr. Elop and all the wonderful things he’s doing for Nokia’s future. Hope it all works out well for you. *leaves room shaking head*

  • LoveNokia

    Definitely N8.

    Reasons:
    N8 is more beautiful
    N8 is higher quality — doubt Samsung Galaxy’s battery number’s reliability, because mine Galaxy standby is 24-48 hours
    Many nokia phones including N8 are with OVI map which are free downloadable for Nokia phone user, which is extremely important for a person (businessmen, tourists) who are abroad — people buy mobile phone for communication, not just for games.

    Besides, if you were a Galaxy S user, would you be happy to see the price almost 50% less not in one year? Oct. 2010, it was 549 Euro.

  • LoveNokia

    I don’t really agree that Elop did so much harm to Nokia.

    It is the people tried to  find mistakes in Elop’s sentences did th harm to Nokia.

    It is not a bad decision to go to Windows, because Windows is with Strong software background, and Nokia is with strong hardware background.

    I have been using Nokia for 10 years, but 2010 Oct. I moved to Samsung because the Nokia’s phone at that time were not good enough.

    But in future, I am going to move back to Nokia, because Nokia’s hardware good quality is not something could be compensated by sofeware, particuarly now Nokia is improving its software’s performance.

    Nokia now is like a patient in First Aid, let’s not announce its death when the “doctors” are busy for its operation. Yes, the Q2 is read, it is bleeding, have you ever seen a patient with big operation without bleeding?

    Google Android has its own problems, they said they were linux base programme, but the Android update program can be loaded from Windows computer not LInux base computer — as Linux fan I chose Android, but I can’t update my phone with Linux computer is not something friendly to Linux user.

    Google has problem of consumers’ personal data — well, it seems Apple has too, Korean are suing Apple for that.

    Besides, Google has a big patent holes with so many companies, see the court result? Nokia won apple, got patent fee from Apple, Apple won HTC, HTC is facing ruling out of US market,and now both HTC and Google are busy for buying patents, just this simple comparison could understand Nokia has stronger patente portfolio.

    MS haters blame MS monopoly, but if you see Android coming out to the market with Gtalk loaded but without Skype, you would just laugh and say, everybody is same, you think Google doesn’t know that Skype is much more popular used by communication? Google doesn’t know Gtalk’s level is much far away from Skype? The only reason MS monopolies and Google doesn’t is due to Google hasn’t got MS’s position, in fact they are facing FTC probe for wrong using their power as Search Giant.

    — Don’t judge me as Nokia fanboy, I am a fan, but not really fanboy, otherwise I wouldn’t buy Galaxy S. But here quality talks, am going to move back to Nokia once it has a good product coming out, let’s say, N9? or a Nokia-WP7.

  • http://twitter.com/rodrigottr Rodrigo Arantes

    Jesus Staska!!

    I just can’t believe you came with this explanation. Sorry for my words but that is the most stupid I ever seen.

    Prices on Amazon.com has nothing to do with Nokia’s crash on sales. Please, tell me, how many people do you know that buy a high end smartphone like the Galaxy or the N8 on Amazon.com??
    And how many buy it on a carrier retail with data plan subsided contract?

    On most of developed countries data subsided contracts is by far the most used way of buying a smartphone. On developing countries, is more common to people to buy phones outside contracts. But by far people who does this buy dumbphones, not smartphones.

    So, by far, everywhere the most used way of selling smartphones is through carrier retail chains.
    On this contracts this small difference of price you pointed becomes almost nothing to change a buyer’s mind about which smart phone he wants.

    You must understand that phone retail chain is different from PC retail chain. Phones retail chain is more similar to buying medicines then buying PCs.

    Pfizer, ROCHE, Bayer focus all their attention of sales force on doctors, not patients. Why? Because the PRODUCT they sell is totally conditioned by the SERVICE that comes with it. That is different from PC market where the use of PC is totally not linked to any service (except for some software services like anti virus)

    And how is the strategy for a Pfizer, Roche, Bayer, salesmen to influence the doctors? Most of them give them travels, free medicine, and some other privileges pressuring the doctors to give priority to medicines of the laboratory that gives them more.

    That is the same that happens with carriers!! That is why Google’s Android is growing fast! They build the most carrier friendly from competitive smartphone OSs in the market! Carriers will always chose what is better for them! So they give Android priority. And that is why Android has surpassed iPhone (the phone that inspired Android) surpassed Symbian (less competitive but very carrier friendly) and why WP7 (competitive but very unfriendly) had no progress on more then one year in the market. Android is the most carrier friendly from the competitive platforms in the market and is the preferred platform by all carriers.

    When Nokia says will stop making the carrier friendly Symbian, abort the carrier friendly MeeGo, to ship only with the nothing friendly Microsoft’s WP, THEY WILL BE PUNISHED!! THERE WILL BE A BOYCOTT!! EVEN HARDER WHEN MICROSOFT DECIDES TO BECOME A COMPETITOR OF ALL CARRIERS WITH SKYPE!!!

  • Vode

    Only my knowledge and Ihamuotila’s statement. Wouldn’t you be sceptical as a retailer to stock Symbian after that kind of announcement? If not you’d be making a mistake.

    I’m sorry but to think this is mainly because of price pressure, is ludacris.

    And btw N8 and C7 were the only S^3 models that launched in Q4 2010. (C6-01 availability was very limited to non-excistant)

  • http://www.staska.net Staska

    Sorry about the “fanboy”. I didn’t address it to you personally, and even that “you” in the comment was meant as “average customer” not you personally. Still it was out of line and I should have used “Nokia fan”  – also in generic meaning of the word (not you personaly).  I apologize for that. 

    As for the prices on Amazon U.S. – I don’t think it is fair to compare a model that has huge carrier presence, and is never really meant to be sold in open retail market (Galaxy S), to a model the that is has an open retail as an only available channel (Nokia N8). Nokia is not competitor to anyone in U.S. – so competitors don’t have any reason to reduce prices against it. Also – Samsung Galaxy S2 haven’t been released in U.S. yet, so there’s also no real need for Samsung to reduce prices for what is still a flagship model in U.S. Look at the markets where Nokia 

    As for the “overwhelming evidence” – the only “evidence” you provided so far – was the drop in absolute Nokia sales   in Q1 and Q2. Which can be easily explained by multiple reasons other then Feb.11 and, IMO, are a direct consequence of the Symbian market share crash that started last summer 

  • http://www.staska.net Staska

    Sorry, but you seem to have completely missed the main point of the article. It was that Nokia N8 and other Symbian phones where designed and meant to compete with Androids on price. At the same price level – Symbian is simply not competitive. (Well, it seems you actually agree that Symbian is not competitive later on in your comment, contradicting yourself)

    And when Samsung, HTC and the rest push the price down – they push it down at wholesale level. That means that these phones become cheaper for carriers too. So carriers can and do offer Galaxy S/SL and HTC Desire for a lower price and/or lower priced plan. Last year, when you had to get 20-30% more expensive plan from the carrier or you had to pay way more for device to get Galaxy S vs Nokia N8, Nokia N8 had the chance. Because it was cheaper for carrier and thus sold for less (with cheaper plan and/or for less money) to the customer. Today, for the same plan/price – you can get Nokia N8 and Samsung Galaxy S. And you yourself admit – that at the same price the Symbian phones are simply not competitive    

    And when talking about carrier control of the device market – you forget about huge parts of the world, where that is not the case. Carriers control device markets in North America. (which is not important to Nokia in this case) and Western Europe. Maybe South America (not sure about that). Huge parts of the world  have more or less unsubsidized device markets – Eastern Europe, Russia, most of the Asia, Africa – and there people do usually pay full price for their mobile phones. Your  analogy with prescription drug industry is really stretched. First – because there usually are tens of thousands of doctors per country, while there are only 3-5 carriers, second – because it applies to only less then half of the total worldwide market. The rest of your theories – about carrier friendly OSes, carriers hating or feeling betrayed by Nokia, carriers hating Microsoft because of Skype – they are nothing more then your theories, and I have yet to see you to back them up with even the thinnest shred of data. We used to have this fun discussion on Tomi Ahonen’s blog and I haven’t see you providing any data there too. Unfortunately, when I showed on just what flimsy data/research Tomi’s assertions on Skype boycott are based – he has deleted all my comments and banned me from his blog. http://www.staska.net/2011/07/07/telling-me-to-fk-off-calling-skype-boycott-qs-utter-rubish%E2%80%9D-deleting-all-my-comments-tomiahonen-thank-you/  

  • http://www.staska.net Staska

    Agreed – those are valid reasons for Nokia fan and some consumers. And that’s why Nokia is still selling some Symbian phones. Quite a lot, in fact, if you look at absolute numbers and compare them to other vendors. Q2 numbers are only disaster for Nokia. I’ll bet everyone else except for Samsung and Apple would love to have them :)

  • http://twitter.com/hmmJD1 JD!

    Sorry to say, your argument is wrong. Nokia did had alternative called MEEGO. Also if symbian is not provided on crappy processors and low RAM phones, the position of company might be different.
    Symbian is not bad, but crappy processors and low RAM makes them look like they are laggy products.
    Also, MEEGO was almost finished (as we see in N9 and N950).
    I have never seen a CEO coming on board and saying that our company is dying… telling employees that many of you will be fired shortly!
    Who will work in this environment? People are confused.

    For endcustomer, all sellers in India (One of the biggest markets) & YES ALL SELLERS (Local shops) are telling customers that Look Nokia is good, reliable, but this software is going to END! They can’t make customers fool! Even those customers who have never heard of any other mobile brand other than NOKIA has seen thinking twice! This just stopped the products from moving at all!

    Looks like you forgot what is the role of CEO is! He is supposed to bring sanity to already boiling waters, not throw his own people into them! Thats what your deal Elop did. He made many mistakes which will now be taught for long term in the Management classes (about the ill effects of bad CEO).

    As far NOkia is concerned, I dont think it will be easier now to bounce back for them. They are still slow in launching and putting latest and greatest in their phones. Nokia N9 should have Dual core processor but no, nokia still thinks they will manage to position anything which they want. I am not saying anything against N9 but it is true, it should have dual core processor & why did Nokia engineers didnt put it is beyond anybody’s guess. People might say it is coz of battery, but i doubt, as Nokia always keep stretching their OS’s to the limits.

    All in all it wont be possible to save Nokia anymore from Elop’s ediotness and dumb decisions.

    Nothing is just not going right in favour of Nokia anymore. May be N9 or N950 might be able to save it! But N950 is already ditched and MEEGO with N9 is announced Dead even before arrival.

    And Yes I always owned a Symbian Phone. Have tested buggy Android Phones (thats the only reason I didnt made a shift). Who knows what my next phone would be!

  • http://twitter.com/hmmJD1 JD!

    You are not believing in sense and asking for data. Just wait a few more months and you will see the data yourself and you can see Nokia in the dust with Mr. Elop the greatest trojan (written in Golden words in the book The biggest trojan).

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5SSNSU7X3AC7RLTHZWNQOBWUBE Gunnar

    I would guess that Staska works for Microsoft.
    I have only owned Android phones and also work in IT, and it is obvious Mr. Elop has killed Nokia, his predecessors  were doing were killing Nokia (also) but slowly and there was a good chance their could have turned it around with Megoo on the high-end and Symbian on the low-end.
    But Mr Elop has taken a huge gamble with WP7, but no one is interested in WP7 ( there is a lot of dislike or hat of MS in the market, fail or not it is there), so trying to push WP7 is an uphill struggle. 
    Nokia could have been back in the game with Megoo on the high-end and Symbian on the low-end (not market leaders, but one of them) but now they will fight for their lives and maybe not make it cause they hire a Microsoft Office Suite manager, dumb move. he was not a mobile guy.
    Train Wreck 

  • http://www.staska.net Staska

    Yep, sure I’m another trojan horse in disguise, defending Elop wherever I can because he pays me… 

    Nice to see such sage business advice and understanding of what Nokia should have done to beat Apple and Google in mobile market. It’s Symbian and Meego and nothing else. Doesn’t matter that  every serious upgrade  for Symbian takes 6000 engineers more then a year and costs billions. It also does not matter that it took 22 months to produce Meego/Harmattan N9 device from previous N900/Maemo 5 iteration, with Apple going from iOS 3 to iOs 5 in the same time frame, and Android going from 1.5 to 3.1. Oh those magic words – Symbian, Meego. If Elop just waited 6 more months, everything would have been fine – Nokia would have shown the world what a powerful software house they have….

    And I especially love your amazing foresight into the future – how you see the inevitable failure of Nokia WP strategy. Only 5 months into it, without single device launched…. 

  • http://www.staska.net Staska

    Not sure which Ihamuotila statement you have in mind. And no, I would not be skeptical  as a retailer to stock Symbian after that kind of announcement. Even in the first announcement Elop has stated clearly that Nokia will be providing Symbian updates and releasing new Symbian phones at least through 2012 and providing support after that. If Nokia had some great, highly desirable devices to offer at competitive devices, what’s to worry about?   With an average smartphone replacement cycle of 18 months, and with the most popular carrier contracts at 24 months – by the time Nokia winds down Symbian,  those happy customers that bought great Nokia devices, would have moved on to the new Nokia Windows phones. Unfortunately Symbian^3 and even Anna makes it impossible  for Nokia to produce such a great devices. 

    But, as a retailer, what will make me reconsider how many Nokia smartphones I want to stock right now, would be if Samsung sales rep came to me this March and said: 

    So – how are our Galaxy S is doing? How many did you sell and how much money did you make on each one? A lot? Great! Now we have even better news for you. Galaxy S2 is coming in about a month. It’s a lot better then the previous Galaxy S and we will be spending even more to market it, so S2 sales should be at least 50% higher. And you know what? We have even more great news for you. Those original Galaxy Ses that you have sold tons of for 500Euro+ a pop? We will be slashing their prices by about 200 Euro – so you can sell even more of them for a bit more then 300EUR. 

    And then HTC rep came with the same message, then LG came then Motorola… Suddenly I’ll start thinking that I have finite amount of money and finite amount of shelf space at each price point, and I think I don’t really need to stock so many Nokia’s that weren’t selling too well anyway. So I should start reducing Nokia inventories in my shops to make room for those cheap Galaxy Ses and HTC Desires.  

       

  • http://www.mobileinfoplanet.com MIP

    The fact that you [Staska] argue that Feb 11 did not have *any* effect whatsoever on Nokia’s smartphone sales is simply absurd.

    Just ask yourself this: if Elop could do his Feb 11 announcement all over again, do you think he would do it in the same way he did?
    If your answer is “No”, then you also admit to him making an enormous mistake. And to then claim that that mistake did not effect sales is laughable.

  • http://www.staska.net Staska

    And where exactly do I argue that Feb. 11th did not have any effect whatsoever?

    I argue that Feb. 11th had little effect – that does not mean no effect whatsoever. And I also argue that those saying that Feb. 11th is the main reason for current Symbian sales crash, have no evidence whatsoever, proving their assertion. The only supposed evidence they have produced so far – is a huge drop in absolute Nokia Symbian sales volumes. Which- as I showed/argue in the post and all the comments here – can easily be explained just by extending the trends that started in Q4, Nokia’s failure to update it’s portfolio with competitive products during past 9 months, and competitor actions – cutting prices for their 2010 flagships and other products, putting them squarely against N8 and other S^3 devices at the same level. 

    As for would Elop do Feb. 11th again if he had a chance to change it? The only honest answer anyone except Elop can give to that is “I don’t know”. I think that yes, he will do it all over again, maybe tweaking a messagea bit and being more clear/explicit about Nokia Symbian plans, like he did on Feb. 13th. But the core message – Symbian end of lifed in a few years, Meego to the labs/future disruptions, all-in with Windows Phone – that would be the same.    

  • http://twitter.com/rodrigottr Rodrigo Arantes

    MY LAST COMMENT HERE

    And my last words I would like to advice you about something. You will never make a good review about mobile trends if you don’t stop to see things as a consumer and don’t start to put yourself on those managers chairs!

    That is why all your words are so myopic. EVERYTHING that happens inside a company is concerned to their strategy. All decisions have all its consequences analyzed in all the possible spheres and the last sphere, and most important as all the others are inside this, is the strategy.

    Even things like profit aren’t always good on strategic sphere. Strategy is concerned to make companies remain forever. Not concerned on making them profitable. A very profitable company ALWAYS attracts more competition making life harder on long term. These are theorys from Management and Economy.  But you still seem to be damn attached to a geek user point of view and your vision is much more over the product then over the company.

    YOU LOOK THE TREE AND MISS THE FOREST

    Thats why you never mention on your words funny thinks like the “coincidence” of WP7 being a market flop and Microsoft being each day more stuck in the shrinking PC market, the CEO of Nokia being a former from Microsoft, and inside Nokia ALL his decisions be oriented to stop inside developing of Nokia own systems to be more dependable of Microsoft’s system!

    That is why you never explained why WP7 is such a flop. That is why you can’t understand that companies are POLITICAL ENTITIES AND HAVE POLITICAL RELATIONSHIPS WITH EACH OTHERS. Relationships where PRICES are just a detail inside strategy! That is why when Microsoft announces a partnership with Facebook, Google and Apple attach their systems to Twitter!

    That is why you keep asking for DATA that you will never SEE but doesn’t mean they don’t exist! That is why Obama doesn’t shows Osama’s face on media! That is why they never found the mass destruction weapons on Iraq! That is why carriers would never say they boycott WP7 or Nokia when they have many reasons for this and there is many evidences of it! Some people are able to see some things behind the DATA that is public. And you are not this kind of people. You are the kind of people that blindly believes on only what you see.

    As you seen, Nokia’s dumbphones (S40) chrashed on the same trend Symbian when Symbian (not S40) was abandoned!! That is why WP7 is irrelevant! As Google Nexus One was a Flop! Carriers domain markets. Companies are political. Carries boycott M$ and Nokia, MeeGo is better then WP7. Elop is a Troyan. And you are naive and/or blind.

  • Martijn

    If it were this simple we’ll all be buying cheap chinese phones

  • Martijn

    If it were this simple we’ll all be buying cheap chinese phones

  • Martijn

    If it were this simple we’ll all be buying cheap chinese phones

  • http://twitter.com/rodrigottr Rodrigo Arantes

    “Do or die bid? Yep – agreed. If WP Nokia bid fails Nokia is dead. But did they have any alternative? ”

    FUCKING MEEGO?!

    You suck terribly Staska

  • http://twitter.com/rodrigottr Rodrigo Arantes

    “Do or die bid? Yep – agreed. If WP Nokia bid fails Nokia is dead. But did they have any alternative? ”

    FUCKING MEEGO?!

    You suck terribly Staska

  • http://www.staska.net Staska

    I thought you said this is your last comment here. What’s up to that reply about alternatives? 

    Btw, I removed that one. I do not mind an occasional F word in a heated argument, though I prefer friggin or F%^% or something like that. But when your reply is just 2 words, and one of them is the F one – sorry, I won’t keep it up there. If you want you can repost it, without the F. You can even keep the “you suck terribly part” – rather funny and just goes to show a lot about your intelligence. And don’t worry – I am not Tomi Ahonen and I don’t ban people or delete their comments just because they disagree with me. No matter how nonsensical their arguments are. 

    And thank’s for Business&Econ theory 101.  I guess I must bow to your deep insights into mobile carrier strategy. Who else can see it so clearly and  without any underlying data to support it. Thank you for enlightening me. Especially since these theories – ignoring consumer, pandering to carriers – have served Nokia so well in the past 4 years. I guess Nokia just didn’t really need the high margin high end of the market, ceding it to Apple and Android. 

    And did I understand this correctly? Are you saying that there were WMDs in Iraq, they just did not tell us? And carries boycott M$ and Nokia, MeeGo is better then WP7. Elop is a Troyan.? I guess you will  add that CIA killed Kennedy and that the world is ruled by shadow banker government or Illuminati to this list too? 

    And what Nokia dumbphones crash are you talking about?  Nokia dumbphone volumes dropped already 10% in Q4 2010, then dropped 2% in Q1 (while Nokia did all the channel stuffing artificially inflating Q1 sales in China – one of the biggest Nokia dumbphone markets) and now they are paying the price for channel stuffing in Q1  with a drop of 16%. Nokia itself admitted already in Q4 2010 that they are feeling a pressure of local Chinese and Indian cellphone makers, especially with dual SIM phones.  16% YoY is a decline – but it’s not that much bigger then what happened in Q4 2010 and I would not call it a crash

  • http://www.staska.net Staska

    I thought you said this is your last comment here. What’s up to that reply about alternatives? 

    Btw, I removed that one. I do not mind an occasional F word in a heated argument, though I prefer friggin or F%^% or something like that. But when your reply is just 2 words, and one of them is the F one – sorry, I won’t keep it up there. If you want you can repost it, without the F. You can even keep the “you suck terribly part” – rather funny and just goes to show a lot about your intelligence. And don’t worry – I am not Tomi Ahonen and I don’t ban people or delete their comments just because they disagree with me. No matter how nonsensical their arguments are. 

    And thank’s for Business&Econ theory 101.  I guess I must bow to your deep insights into mobile carrier strategy. Who else can see it so clearly and  without any underlying data to support it. Thank you for enlightening me. Especially since these theories – ignoring consumer, pandering to carriers – have served Nokia so well in the past 4 years. I guess Nokia just didn’t really need the high margin high end of the market, ceding it to Apple and Android. 

    And did I understand this correctly? Are you saying that there were WMDs in Iraq, they just did not tell us? And carries boycott M$ and Nokia, MeeGo is better then WP7. Elop is a Troyan.? I guess you will  add that CIA killed Kennedy and that the world is ruled by shadow banker government or Illuminati to this list too? 

    And what Nokia dumbphones crash are you talking about?  Nokia dumbphone volumes dropped already 10% in Q4 2010, then dropped 2% in Q1 (while Nokia did all the channel stuffing artificially inflating Q1 sales in China – one of the biggest Nokia dumbphone markets) and now they are paying the price for channel stuffing in Q1  with a drop of 16%. Nokia itself admitted already in Q4 2010 that they are feeling a pressure of local Chinese and Indian cellphone makers, especially with dual SIM phones.  16% YoY is a decline – but it’s not that much bigger then what happened in Q4 2010 and I would not call it a crash

  • http://www.staska.net Staska

    I thought you said this is your last comment here. What’s up to that reply about alternatives? 

    Btw, I removed that one. I do not mind an occasional F word in a heated argument, though I prefer friggin or F%^% or something like that. But when your reply is just 2 words, and one of them is the F one – sorry, I won’t keep it up there. If you want you can repost it, without the F. You can even keep the “you suck terribly part” – rather funny and just goes to show a lot about your intelligence. And don’t worry – I am not Tomi Ahonen and I don’t ban people or delete their comments just because they disagree with me. No matter how nonsensical their arguments are. 

    And thank’s for Business&Econ theory 101.  I guess I must bow to your deep insights into mobile carrier strategy. Who else can see it so clearly and  without any underlying data to support it. Thank you for enlightening me. Especially since these theories – ignoring consumer, pandering to carriers – have served Nokia so well in the past 4 years. I guess Nokia just didn’t really need the high margin high end of the market, ceding it to Apple and Android. 

    And did I understand this correctly? Are you saying that there were WMDs in Iraq, they just did not tell us? And carries boycott M$ and Nokia, MeeGo is better then WP7. Elop is a Troyan.? I guess you will  add that CIA killed Kennedy and that the world is ruled by shadow banker government or Illuminati to this list too? 

    And what Nokia dumbphones crash are you talking about?  Nokia dumbphone volumes dropped already 10% in Q4 2010, then dropped 2% in Q1 (while Nokia did all the channel stuffing artificially inflating Q1 sales in China – one of the biggest Nokia dumbphone markets) and now they are paying the price for channel stuffing in Q1  with a drop of 16%. Nokia itself admitted already in Q4 2010 that they are feeling a pressure of local Chinese and Indian cellphone makers, especially with dual SIM phones.  16% YoY is a decline – but it’s not that much bigger then what happened in Q4 2010 and I would not call it a crash

  • http://www.staska.net Staska

    I thought you said this is your last comment here. What’s up to that reply about alternatives? 

    Btw, I removed that one. I do not mind an occasional F word in a heated argument, though I prefer friggin or F%^% or something like that. But when your reply is just 2 words, and one of them is the F one – sorry, I won’t keep it up there. If you want you can repost it, without the F. You can even keep the “you suck terribly part” – rather funny and just goes to show a lot about your intelligence. And don’t worry – I am not Tomi Ahonen and I don’t ban people or delete their comments just because they disagree with me. No matter how nonsensical their arguments are. 

    And thank’s for Business&Econ theory 101.  I guess I must bow to your deep insights into mobile carrier strategy. Who else can see it so clearly and  without any underlying data to support it. Thank you for enlightening me. Especially since these theories – ignoring consumer, pandering to carriers – have served Nokia so well in the past 4 years. I guess Nokia just didn’t really need the high margin high end of the market, ceding it to Apple and Android. 

    And did I understand this correctly? Are you saying that there were WMDs in Iraq, they just did not tell us? And carries boycott M$ and Nokia, MeeGo is better then WP7. Elop is a Troyan.? I guess you will  add that CIA killed Kennedy and that the world is ruled by shadow banker government or Illuminati to this list too? 

    And what Nokia dumbphones crash are you talking about?  Nokia dumbphone volumes dropped already 10% in Q4 2010, then dropped 2% in Q1 (while Nokia did all the channel stuffing artificially inflating Q1 sales in China – one of the biggest Nokia dumbphone markets) and now they are paying the price for channel stuffing in Q1  with a drop of 16%. Nokia itself admitted already in Q4 2010 that they are feeling a pressure of local Chinese and Indian cellphone makers, especially with dual SIM phones.  16% YoY is a decline – but it’s not that much bigger then what happened in Q4 2010 and I would not call it a crash